Comments on: Different aspects of baguazhang http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/ In between worlds with sword and laptop Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:43:50 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Ed http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1427 Ed Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:52:48 +0000 http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1427 Well, sure there's lots wrong with being a bagua geek :p I need some skills to go with my geekery, for one... By the way, sorry if my theory is wrong :D Good to hear that there is lots of bagua (well, more than I expected) in Singapore, though! Well, sure there’s lots wrong with being a bagua geek :p I need some skills to go with my geekery, for one…

By the way, sorry if my theory is wrong :D Good to hear that there is lots of bagua (well, more than I expected) in Singapore, though!

]]> By: Emlyn http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1426 Emlyn Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:09:40 +0000 http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1426 Nali, nali! [Embarrassed cough] Nothing wrong with being a bagua geek, though! Hmmm, maybe there's a t-shirt slogan there.... Nali, nali! [Embarrassed cough]

Nothing wrong with being a bagua geek, though! Hmmm, maybe there’s a t-shirt slogan there….

]]> By: Ed http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1425 Ed Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:17:19 +0000 http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1425 Well... I am a bagua nerd :( (Some of the above I just knew, other stuff I did quick searches for (in Chinese).). Of course none of this actually helps my own skill level... I gotta get out and practice more... ;) By the way, I am really enjoying your blog :) Well… I am a bagua nerd :( (Some of the above I just knew, other stuff I did quick searches for (in Chinese).). Of course none of this actually helps my own skill level…

I gotta get out and practice more… ;)

By the way, I am really enjoying your blog :)

]]> By: Emlyn http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1424 Emlyn Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:01:40 +0000 http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1424 Wow, thanks for the info! :-) How do you know this stuff? Wow, thanks for the info! :-)

How do you know this stuff?

]]> By: Ed http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1422 Ed Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:58:22 +0000 http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1422 Yup, wuji is a common (popular) appellation, but I am guessing based on your teacher being from Shanghai (the main lineages of bagua practiced there were that of Jiang Rongqiao (Zhang Zhaodong's disciple), Wang Zhuangfei (Gong Baotian's disciple), and Ji Jinshan, as far as I know). Of those, Ji's style seems to fit the mold best: 1. It is sometimes called "wuji baguazhang." 2. Forms taught include "longxingzhang" (dragon shape palm) and "baxinglianhuanzhang" (8 shapes continuous palm). Now, "longxingzhang" isn't exactly a rare name for forms in bagua, but still... 3. It for some reason mostly uses the "dragon claw" while circling. Not sure why Cui Zhendong's Yin style looks more like Cheng than Yin; perhaps Cui or Ji were highly influenced by some other bagua practitioners (I suspect Liu Fengchun). As for the YouTube videos - the performer calls his style wuji, but many of the videos were actually Fu style (notice the spinning around like a top); his wuji video was too dark to really see what he was doing :( Well, anyway, that is my theory for now. :) Yup, wuji is a common (popular) appellation, but I am guessing based on your teacher being from Shanghai (the main lineages of bagua practiced there were that of Jiang Rongqiao (Zhang Zhaodong’s disciple), Wang Zhuangfei (Gong Baotian’s disciple), and Ji Jinshan, as far as I know). Of those, Ji’s style seems to fit the mold best:

1. It is sometimes called “wuji baguazhang.”
2. Forms taught include “longxingzhang” (dragon shape palm) and “baxinglianhuanzhang” (8 shapes continuous palm). Now, “longxingzhang” isn’t exactly a rare name for forms in bagua, but still…
3. It for some reason mostly uses the “dragon claw” while circling.

Not sure why Cui Zhendong’s Yin style looks more like Cheng than Yin; perhaps Cui or Ji were highly influenced by some other bagua practitioners (I suspect Liu Fengchun).

As for the YouTube videos – the performer calls his style wuji, but many of the videos were actually Fu style (notice the spinning around like a top); his wuji video was too dark to really see what he was doing :(

Well, anyway, that is my theory for now. :)

]]> By: Emlyn http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1420 Emlyn Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:16:44 +0000 http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1420 Hmmm, the thing is, a lot of names seem to crop up in very different contexts, and I think "wuji" is one of them! I'm not sure if you've seen it, but I mentioned another possible source in one of the comments here: http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/05/20/wuji-is-go/ While the origin you suggest above could be true, for all I know, I have to say that the hands in the form Master Zhou is teaching me are in the "dragon claw" style, which suggests something other than Yinfu roots - to the extent of what I know about Yinfu styles, which isn't much! Damn, I wish my Mandarin was better so that I could discuss this directly with Master Zhou! Hmmm, the thing is, a lot of names seem to crop up in very different contexts, and I think “wuji” is one of them!

I’m not sure if you’ve seen it, but I mentioned another possible source in one of the comments here:
http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/05/20/wuji-is-go/

While the origin you suggest above could be true, for all I know, I have to say that the hands in the form Master Zhou is teaching me are in the “dragon claw” style, which suggests something other than Yinfu roots – to the extent of what I know about Yinfu styles, which isn’t much!

Damn, I wish my Mandarin was better so that I could discuss this directly with Master Zhou!

]]> By: Ed http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1419 Ed Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:03:59 +0000 http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1419 By the way - I think I know what wuji baguazhang is now. Apparently, Cui Zhendong, a disciple of Yin Fu, called his baguazhang "wuji baguazhang;" he later taught this to Ji Jinshan of Shanghai (who I am guessing taught Master Zhou). Thus, ostensibly, this style is a variant of the Yin style, but from what I have seen of this style (it has 8 animal shapes), it looks somewhat different from more typical Yin styles; perhaps Cui Zhendong was influenced by some other practitioners as well. :) By the way – I think I know what wuji baguazhang is now. Apparently, Cui Zhendong, a disciple of Yin Fu, called his baguazhang “wuji baguazhang;” he later taught this to Ji Jinshan of Shanghai (who I am guessing taught Master Zhou). Thus, ostensibly, this style is a variant of the Yin style, but from what I have seen of this style (it has 8 animal shapes), it looks somewhat different from more typical Yin styles; perhaps Cui Zhendong was influenced by some other practitioners as well. :)

]]> By: Ed http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1410 Ed Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:42:25 +0000 http://jianghu.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/different-aspects-of-baguazhang/#comment-1410 Not sure what wuji baguazhang is (any idea?), but Zhang style might be a mix of Cheng and Liang styles (with some original content)? (One of Zhang's teachers were Zhao Dayuan, a famous student of Li Ziming; I am guessing that his other baguazhang teachers were Cheng style, but that is just conjecture.) Bagua all seems to be healthful and combative at the same time. Applications are not clear - but that is just Chinese martial arts for ya. :) I would guess that the main differences are just that Yin style is more staccato, Cheng style is very smooth and flowing, and Liang style is somewhere in between. Not sure what wuji baguazhang is (any idea?), but Zhang style might be a mix of Cheng and Liang styles (with some original content)? (One of Zhang’s teachers were Zhao Dayuan, a famous student of Li Ziming; I am guessing that his other baguazhang teachers were Cheng style, but that is just conjecture.)

Bagua all seems to be healthful and combative at the same time. Applications are not clear – but that is just Chinese martial arts for ya. :) I would guess that the main differences are just that Yin style is more staccato, Cheng style is very smooth and flowing, and Liang style is somewhere in between.

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